Wednesday, April 27, 2011

New Yorker Cartoon - ( Didn't make it, but shoulda made it. )


Seems to me, it belongs in the magazine . . . but, then - - - what the hell do I know . . .

Tuesday, April 26, 2011

17153 - Military Cartoon of the Week - Roy Delgado


I try to do at least one military cartoon a week, especially now with two-and-a-half-wars or two-and-three quarters wars, depending how you count, going on.   Your mind can't help but drift in that direction often, right . . . ?

This rough pencil came out rather nice . . . I liked it and left it the way it was  and decided the hell with inking it  - - - someone once told me:  " If it ain't broke, don't fix it. "  ( Genius advice )

Another related piece of advice is:  " knowing when to quit drawing. "

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" The man who opts for revenge should dig two graves. "

                                                                                       CHINESE PROVERB

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1145 kid Cartoon of the Day - Roy Delgado

Monday, April 25, 2011

Business cartoon of the week 17600- Roy Delgado


I never liked the term: WORTHLESS BUM - - -

Sunday, April 24, 2011

Business cartoon of the week - 17533 - Roy Delgado



This one is hot off the drawing board.

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" You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do. "

HENRY FORD, 1863-1947  American Car Manufacturer

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Saturday, April 23, 2011

Cannibals cartoon of the week - Roy Delgado



Years ago you used to see cartoon gags about  cannibals, headhunters, voodoo witchdoctors and stuff like that . . . reason was I guess because of the proliferation of men's magazines . . . . I remember, just to name a few . . . For Men Only, Men, See, True, Argosy, Stag, Saga, and the list was almost endless . . .

All of these magazines carried cartoons about men stranded on desert islands . . . men starving in the desert crawling . . . I guess all of that is now so cliche that it was driven into the ground . . I guess ? . . but I STILL like to see one now and then, so here is my contribution for 2011 . . enjoy . . .

I just started using my new comic typeface called alter ego . . I purchased from blambot.com . . . they have quite a few comic fonts to choose from and they are easily downloadable . . I recommend them highly . . .

17591 cartoon of the week - Roy Delgado


This cartoon reminds me of a true story, so help me God.

Seriously, back about in 1966, I was living in Falls Church, Virginia and I was working in Rockville, Maryland for Patrick Signs as an electrical sign designer and sketch artist.  My friend and co-worker, a top notch sign painter named Lloyd Roberts lived in nearby McLean, Virginia and we took turns commuting to work by the week.

I believe I was driving a late model Chevy station wagon and my friend Lloyd was driving his second car, which happened to be a 1959 light blue Mercury sedan.  I remember that model had the electric rear window that went up and down and was a conversation piece.

Once we descended onto the beltway off route 7 and on to U.S. 495 and headed north to Maryland, the traffic would usually pick up and stay at a steady 55-65 MPH . . . except, except for Lloyd . . . Lloyd for some reason was one of those guys who HAD to lead the pack of drivers on the beltway . . .sometimes expanding to six lanes . . .  it felt like you were in a Daytona Nascar Championship race !  We HAD to, HAD to be first . . . the speed would pick up and then usually average about 90-92 MPH . . . Lloyd refused to let anyone pass him . . . everytime an automobile gained on us trying to pass us, he would bump it up a little faster . . just enough to let him know that WE OWNED THIS HIGHWAY, and there is no way that he is going to get ahead of us . . . as Lloyd gunned it, the only thing he would say in the middle of this circus at 92 miles per hour is something like, " Look at that crazy bastard trying to pass me ! "

Lloyd passed away in 2006.  He lived in Reston, Virginia.  I miss Lloyd.  Later after his stint as a journeyman sign painter he became an electrical building inspector for the state of Virginia.

Friday, April 22, 2011

Vote in 2012


Courtesy Mad Magazine, Copyright 2010

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Just a reminder, to vote . . . How's that hope and change workin' out for you ?

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" We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. "

AESOP   550 BC.

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17588 - Cartoon of the day - Roy Delgado



I've been to Cleveland once . . . back in the late 80's or early 90's . . . I remember being a little anxious to see what all this talk about Cleveland was all about.  I was attending a convention for Sign Manufacturers and I had gone with several close friends who also were owners of sign companies . . .

I did know that The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was located there . . . actually, I don't remember if this event happened BEFORE or AFTER the R&R venue officially opened . . . 

All I remember about Cleveland on that weekend, which I thought was very strange, was that downtown had hardly NO neon signs or ANY kind of lighted signage to tell you that there might be human beings living there at night and might like to have a good time . . capiche ?  Man, I'm telling you, it looked like what Chernobyl might loo like on a Saturday night . . absolutley dead quiet . . . . We did find a steak house ( after a tip from a cab driver ) in some warehouse area which had gone through some urban renewal  . . . which was pretty good and worth the trip . . . 

 All I really remember that I thought was funny is when one of the wise guys with me telling the bartender that the only good thing for us to look forward tomorrow is that we'll be back in Washington and you'll still be here in Cleveland . . .

The guy gave us a dirty look and soon we were the hell outta Cleveland . . . haven't been back since, although I DO plan on going there fairly soon. 


All in all, it turned out pretty good.  On the drive back to Washington, D.C. we stopped in Canton to visit The NFL Hall of Fame Museum . . . we enjoyed it very much . . . worth going to Cleveland for ! 


Tuesday, April 19, 2011

17575 - - - Cartoon of the day . . . War is Hell - Roy Delgado


With the United States in what looks like 3 wars and maybe at least 2 or 3 more on the horizon . . . you can see how easy at certain times in history the same exact landscape or something close to it could have  existed and I'm sure it did . .

I can see Great Britain right now, maybe King Henry V, with his troops putting out brush fires here and there, summoning troops to this altercation . . . dispatching a legion of grenadiers to help so an so . . .

Usually the people demand an answer . . . just like today, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, LYBIA . . .  BAHRAIN . . .  YEMEN , SYRIA . . . SOMALIA again . . . .

I feel the poor sap king in the same predicament trying to act as if it's all just a misunderstanding . . you know, nothing to worry about . . . relax . . . we're all here only for a short time . . . we're just stewards here . . soon,  it'll be someone else's problem, then it will all start over again . . . take a deep breath . . . enjoy . . .

All I know is I've got a front row seat and I ain't givin' it up till it's all over, you know what I mean ? . . . . sigh !



ny739 Dog cartoon of the day - Roy Delgado

Monday, April 18, 2011

Reader's Digest Cartoons - The 90's - Roy Delgado

I just returned from a trip to New York early this morning . . . I left early Friday A.M. . . . I went to enroll my grandaughter, Patricia Delgado at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, It's a great school that I dreamed of attending myself after high-school.  The prestigious school has been chosen year after year as one of the top three best art schools in The U.S. . . I'll post some pics of the campus real soon.

Here are a couple of cartoons from I believe were from the late 90's . . . I had just started my relationship with the magazine and they first bought five from a batch of 15. . . . despite the print media slowly eroding and becoming extinct and the downturn in the economy . . . things could still be worse. . . .  I look at it this way . . . . after reading a great book after hearing about it for 30 years, I finally bought it at Amazon .  . . .  read it, it's called: " I never promised you a rose garden. " nuf sed.



" Facing it, always facing it.  That's the way to get through.  Face it. " ( As so humbly uttered by Joseph Conrad, 1856-1924, Polish-born British writer. )

and then, I love what the great James A. Michner, 1907-1997, The great American writer who reminded  us: " Character consists of what you do on the third and fourth tries. "

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   . . . and then, always remember: " What you pay a-tten-shun to, tells us what your in-ten-shun is. " . . . right ? . . make sense . . . ? 

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Thursday, April 14, 2011

Stan Fine - Master Magazine Cartoonist - 1954


" I'd better disappear till this thing blows over. "


In 1954 while attending Billy Hon's Cartoon School in Los Angeles I remember drooling over the latest issues of The Saturday Evening Post and Collier's and Look magazines . . . looking at and studying the gag cartoons in all of them . . . saying to myself . . . maybe , no not maybe . . . but someday I'll be drawing for these magazines . . . I'm sure . . . 


It took that kind of resolve and attitude . . . not EVER giving the thought or the recognition for the possibility of failure or defeat in this endeavor . . .   

Anyway, I loved Stan Fine's style and so I wrote him and told him I was a student and then I begged for a cartoon rough to frame and hang in my studio for inspiration . . Here it is . . I've kept it safely all these years . . and still hangs in my studio. 

Last I heard he moved from PA or CT down to FL several years ago. 

I heard he ghosted " HAZEL " for Ted Key and is why his style really resembles Ted Key's.  They were definately two of my all-time favorite magazine cartoonists !

This drawing was definately executed with a brush . . . probably a red sable 1 or 2 with India ink on what looks like typewriter onion-skin paper !

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As Paul Meyer told me personally over lunch in Waco, Texas at the Country Club and Golf Course around  July, 1975:

" You can't stop a man that's determined to go somewhere. "

PAUL MEYER  Motivational Guru,  Founder of Success Motivation Institute, Waco Texas

( I was too dumb to know any better and I believed him )

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" Be careful what you believe. " 
Roy Delgado

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Wednesday, April 13, 2011

17565 - Cartoon of the Day - Flying Saucers - Roy Delgado



Roswell, New Mexico, 1947 . . . . The little greyish-green men . . . the crash-landing of a couple UFOs . . .  scattered all over the desert . . . it seems like it was just the other day . . . I was 12 years old when the event happened . . . living in Tucson wasn't that far from Roswell . . .

Business cartoon of the week - 17558 - Roy Delgado


Talk about violence in the workplace . . .

Reminds me of an incident while stationed on Okinawa with the Third Marine Division in 1956 . . . I, PFC Roy Delgado was on Guard Duty in the guard shack.  I was relaxing on my bunk, it was about 2000 hours ( 8 PM ) . . . The Officer of the Day was a First Lieutenant Germany . . . there was only a blanket stretched across and hanging down from the open doorway.  It was easy to hear a conversation in the office since I had the first bunk next to the office . . . The Corporal of the Guard on duty that shift was a Corporal Silver, who was armed with a Colt .45 pistol, as was the Lieutenant.  The Lieutenant was sitting behind the desk as shown here from my vantage point, when Corporal of the guard Silver quiertly walked behind the Lieutenant , aimed his pistol, just about the way you see it in this drawing, and sternly said: " Sir, I wanna see a doctor. "

The lieutenant calmly said, may I use the phone ?  Corporal Silver said, " Yes Sir. "
The Lieutenant called the Sick Bay, identified himself and said, " I need a doctor down here at once, immediately. "   In what seemed like only about two minutes, a jeep pulled up to the guard shack office with a navy doctor and his driver. . . . the doctor entered the office and asked the lieutenant what's the problem. . .  at this time, Corporal Silver handed his pistol over to Lieutenant Germany.  The lieutenant placed handcuffs on him and then the doctor drove off with lieutenant, and the corporal .

I never saw Corporal Silver again.

The guy, Corporal Silver was a Native American and had for months and months kept asking to see a doctor because he wanted "out ". . . . A lot of people want " out " . . and they are usually ignored until an incident like this takes place . . . THEN, they know you're serious . . .   Apparently he " cracked " . . .or as they call  it in the military, he had an " anxiety reaction ".  I found out years later it was the most common ailment experienced by people who folded under the regimentation of the military experience . . . these people usually get out with what is called a "General Discharge. " Or as they used to refer to it during the second world war . . . a  " Section Eight ".  ( Probably referring to The Uniform Code of Military Justice )

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" The purpose of life is to matter - - - to count, to stand for something, to have it make some difference that we lived at all. "

LEO ROSTEN, b. 1908  Polish-born American Writer and Humorist

Monday, April 11, 2011

Wisdom - Thought of the day

Attitude can shape your life.  How about this one:

" It is worth a thousand pounds to have the habit of looking on the bright side of things. "

DR. SAMUEL JOHNSON,  1709 - 1784  English Lexiconographer, Critic and Essayist

17554 Cartoon of the day - Roy Delgado


I love those diners around the Westport CT. area . . . talk about pretty good food on the run, it's amazing I always thought the SIZE of those menus . . . and breakfast 24 hours a day . . .

Someone once asked me if I knew what it means when you see two Greeks standing on a corner talking . . .  they're probably talking about opening up a new restaurant !  Could be true.

Cartoon of the week- Roy Delgado



This guy runs a good mortuary . . . people are dyin' to get in  the place . . . ouch!

Cartoon of the day - Roy Delgado



This is usually the part of town I like to stay away from . . . but unfortunately it looks like that's where the action is . . . last time I was in that neighborhood, I ran into Charlie Sheen coming out of a liquor store . . . with Arm-Candy-Goddesses on each side . . . sigh . . .

Saturday, April 9, 2011

17546 - Cartoon of the week- Roy Delgado



I am 100% convinced that the main reason people like to go on cruises is because of the enormous food available all day long . . . and FREE !, for God's Sake ! - - -  Is it all you can eat, or all you CARE to eat ?  Which is it ?

The reason I DON'T like to go on cruises is because it's hard enough to stay away from gorging WITHOUT it being in front of you 24 hours a day - - -  capish ?

Lord, give me the strength to stay away from those 'All you can eat ' deals - - -

Cruising is Amusing - Cartoon Book


This cartoon is on page 109 of the new cartoon book:  Cruising is Amusing  by Roy Delgado and Bob Rafferty. 

 The 6x9 softcover has a laminated color cover and 143 pages of funny black and white cartoons inside.



The collaboration was a work by veteran magazine cartoonist Roy Delgado and also veteran humor writer Bob Rafferty. 

Lots of smiles in the book, a few laughs, a few laugh-out-loud stuff and a few knee-slappers . . . 


If you like cruises, or THINKING about taking a cruise, or will NEVER take a cruise . . . this hard-to-find book is the perfect gift for yourself or anybody that likes a good laugh now and then . . . especially in these times that leave so little time for humor . . .  


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" The love of life is necessary to the vigorous prosecution of any undertaking. "

Dr. SAMUEL JOHNSON, 1709-1784
English Lexicographer, Critic and Essayist

 

Wisdom in a 3-pack plus one . . . Roy Delgado

" The hard part of making good is that you have to do it every day. " 

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If you get up one more time than you fall you will make it through. "

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" Stopping at third base adds no more to the score than striking out. "

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" Only fools are glad when governments change. "
                                                           - Rumanian

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17540 Obama's birth certificate found ! - Roy Delgado

Friday, April 8, 2011

17537 - Cartoon of the hour - Roy Delgado




This cartoon literally just flew off my drawing board.

17536 Cartoon of the week - Roy Delgado


You don't see many cannibal gags any more, I guess because political correctness . . .  most of the cartoons of this genre were all over the main stream magazines after the army, navy and marines returned from the south pacific . . . with all kinds of stories.

Nothing like a good cannibal cartoon now and then . . . especially if you're a vegan ! ( which I'm not )  I was going to
say,  " Eat your heart out ! "  but I decided not to.

17532 Cartoon of the day



I read somewhere while studying humor that the 'pun' was considered the lowest form of humor . . . yet, you still see it in some top magazines . . . I guess maybe if it's done in a certain way, it could be okay to pass it off . . .

Every time you see a pun, at least to me, I still get a smile, even though it's followed 
by a " corny " under my breath . . . yet, I still keep doing them . . . I guess I just have an affinity for them.

How about a book: " FUN WITH A PUN "  ( Ouch! )

Wall Street Journal cartoon - Roy Delgado

In today's Wall Street Joornal . . .

Thursday, April 7, 2011

Wisdom -Thought for the Day -

" If we did all the things we are capable of doing we would truly astound ourselves."

THOMAS EDISON,  1847-1931  American Inventor

Hot off the drawing board - Roy Delgado


This drawing literally came off my drawing board 5 minutes ago . . . timely with the state of the economy . . . does it belong in the New Yorker ?  You tell me.

How is a man supposed to keep his sanity when your stuff is rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected  and rejected and rejected and rejected . . .  and rejected . . .
ARG-H-H-H !

Wednesday, April 6, 2011

Roy Delgado Cartoonist

A funny thing happened on the way to the New Yorker


This unique book of cartoons, 107 pages of rejected stuff from the New Yorker but went on to be published by The Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, Barron's, Reader's Digest, The Saturday Evening Post, Medical Economics, The Law Journal, etc., etc.

The Funny thing about the whole thing is I NEVER GOT TO THE NEW YORKER.

A funny thing happened, and is STILL happening, and I'm STILL ON THE WAY TO THE NEW YORKER !

Anyway it's available from Amazon or Borders or Barnes Noble or most bookstores for about  $14.00 USD, including shipping from right here.


Inquire:
Roy Delgado


or send a $14.00 check or money order to:

Roy Delgado

PO Box 1135
Petersburg WV 26847

Book ships within 3 days.






15722 Cartoon of the hour - Roy Delgado


This is a gag you might see in a " Honeymooners" sit com series with Ralph Kramden the bus driver and Art Carney the garbage collector in the main cast . . .  Only thing, ole Ralph would never talk to his wife like that . . . but it was the same kind of slam-bam slapstick humor that America fell in love with  back in  the1960's.

Cartoon of the week- Roy delgado

Cartoon of the day - Roy Delgado

Tuesday, April 5, 2011

on Believing and Success

" They are able who think they are able. "

VIRGIL, 70-19 BC  Roman Poet

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" The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in a thing makes it happen. "

FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT, 1869-1959   American Architect

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" The secret of making something work in our lives is first of all, the deep desire to make it work; then the faith and belief that it can work; then to hold that clear definite vision in your consciusness and see it working out step by step, without one thought of doubt or disbelief.
"

EILEEN CADDY,  Co-Founder of the Findhorn Foundation, Scotland

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" One of the greatest of all principles is that men can do what they think they can do. "

NORMAN VINCENT PEALE, 1898-1993   American Writer and Minister

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I don't know about you, but when I read stuff like this, I can feel the hair on the back of my neck stand up and I feel they are talking to me.

And this in turn, reminds me of the old ancient Chinese philosopher's adage:  " When the student is ready, the teacher arrives. "

Are YOU ready ? . . . . nuf sed, take it and run with it.  It's all right here.

17519 Cartoon of the Day - Roy Delgado


I like military humor, having been in the Marines for four years and around sailors on ships . . . I remember one kinda  funny incident aboard the U.S.S. Gen. Edwin Patrick, a civilian ship used to transport my outfit TO and from Okinawa, 2 years later back to the states.

While on the top side of the ship,  around 1100 hours, usually after we'd finished our work details which consisted usually in keeping the vessel clean as a whistle, sweeping, cleaning, scrubbing our living and working quarters a bunch of us were strewn about, laying down on the deck all over the place, waiting for chow-call . . .  criss-crossed . .  . it usually happened this way . . . the first guy would usually be sitting leaning on the bulkhead cat-napping with maybe his arms crossed . . . the next guy, usually a buddy he knew, would use his shins as a pillow and decide to lay down and also take a nap . . . then another guy, maybe a close buddy of the guy laying his head on the guy's shins, would also do the same thing, etc., etc., . . . before you knew it there might be 20-30 or more guys, all inter-connected . . . if one guy decided to get up. it would interrupt the whole crowd because of course every time one guy moved to get up it would disturb and wake up the next guy, etc., . . . pretty soon, just like a set of dominoes in a film playing in reverse . . . what a sight ! 

One particular time, it was me who happened to be the first to lay down, and I noticed no bulkhead I could use,  but I did see a nice coil of what a call rope on the deck, perfect for a pillow, so that is exactly what I did . . . the thick rope made for a comfortable place lay my tired head down . . . just when I was beginning to doze off, I  felt the usual buddie using my shin for a pillow and the whole familiar exercise began to happen . . . then another guy layed down and leaned on him  and another and another on HIS leg and . . .  . . .then as I began to snore I was awakened by a loud growl, actually more of a grunt which belonged to a 7 foot Terminator-type swabbie and he screamed as he pointed at me :  " Hey ! Get off that line ! ! " . . .

I hesitated a little, and said: " Oh. you measn this ROPE ? "

Everybody laughed except the Terminator  . . . .  I got my smile for the day. . . after that incident I was on you know who's crap list . . the rest of the voyage I tried to hide from the Terminator.

Monday, April 4, 2011

Plum Loco/Roy Delgado Cartoon of the week - 17158


I predict this one will get "gobbled up " by some editor soon . . . I've been wrong before, unfortunately, but on this one, you can bet the house on it . . . will keep you posted . . .  

Cartoon of the day - Roy Delgado


I like nut cases, braggarts, wing nuts ( on both sides ) psychics . . . My real interest is in Psychics that swear they can predict an event BEFORE it has happened . . . You know . . We've seen them at carnivals . . the seedy part of town . . they're in every city in the country . . . Last one I saw was on 10th Street NW, downtown Washington, D.C.  . . . I had  made her a sign for her window which read something like Madam Zula, knows all, sees all . . . . . past,  present, future . . . free birthday readings., etc.

 Funny thing, when I delivered it to her, she was out, so I left it . . . weeks, then months went by, every time I called, someone with a different voice said, " She's out. "   She never returned my calls.  ( I learned later it was her disguising her voice )

About 9 months later, I stopped by in person and I caught her inbetween customers . . . When I asked for the lousy 25 bucks she owed me for the sign, she says to me  with a straight face . . . " See, if you would have let me look into your future when you were here the first time, you would have KNOWN you would have to wait 9 months to get paid ! " 

So I asked her, How much would you have charged me?  She said twenty-five bucks.

True Story.

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I asked her years later how come nobody has ever predicted the winner of The Kentucky Derby.  I'm still waiting for an answer.

Sunday, April 3, 2011

Evolution of a magazine cartoon -



This second drawing here is a tracing using my light table built into my drawing board . . . I used first an HB pencil and then finally using a Sharpie fine point I keep making corrections so I can see the important new lines as the drawing begins to come alive . . slowly at first . . .     but you can feel it and all the time in your mind it is slowly becoming clearer and more focused . . . you slowly get a feeling that everything is going to be all right . . .

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I will attempt here to show how a cartoon rough evolves from nothing to a completely finished cartoon ready to make a New Yorker editor or some other lucky editor's chops drool. 

I'm serious, I like to approach every cartoon this way . . . almost as if In KNOW the editor is going to purchase it . . .   I see it beginning to take shape. . . once the idea has been finalized with the actual wording, or close to the final wording . . at least to the point that you are excited to begin drawing it up . . .   the adrenelin begins to flow as you place and tape your bond paper to your board.

At this point, the excitement begins to grab a hold of me and every minute from here on until the final drawing will continuously become better focused . . . maybe a little Mozart today softly in the background . . . 

The very first thing I do is make at least one or two freehand quicky thumbnails about 3x4 inches from different angles, in this case it had to be a front view because of all the elements involved and therefore I wanted to make it easy to read in a continuous flow telling the story all along . . .

What you see here in the first drawing on bond paper with a soft pencil is the scene that has been in my mind ever since I first began to draw it up.

Like Woody Allen said: " 90% is just showing up. "

And in this business, " 90% is beginning to draw the project. "

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THIS drawing below actually was the first sketch . . . after the thumbnails.




You just dive in, unafraid, knowing that the end point will be exactly what you wanted . . . and because you are not afraid to make mistakes . . . and you KNOW you have plenty of erasers and plenty of paper and plenty of time . . .

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This is the third and final black and white drawing that I will use to now start working in color . . .




Now you have a clean tracing again of your project and after a couple of times tracing this drawing again,you continue to trace it till it is just right.  In this case because of so many elements I had to draw as large as possible . . . in fact, I drew Steve Jobs at the podium on a separate piece of paper and reduced it and pasted it in position . . .

Next, I Googled up images of all the logos and pieces of equipment I would need and I printed and pasted copies in the appropriate sizes and places in the drawing to tell the story . . .

The next drawing you will see the final drawing !




And here is the final drawing. . . . For the crowd scene audience, I just drew about 6 or 7 people and then with the clone tool on the program I was able to drop in the duplicate pieces of the crowd wherever I wanted to . . by making a few changes in the arms, etc., you can create the illusion that the crowd was drawn all at once . . .  then a little clean up all over  the drawing, touching it up here and there . . . and all the time coloring it, tweaking it, etc. 

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Most drawings are not this complicated or I would have gone out of here like Ernest Hemingway . . .

  When I finish one like this, I sometimes mumble to myself the words of the late great Martin Luther King Jr.,

" Free at last, free at last, Thank God Almighty, I'm free at last ! "

Friday, April 1, 2011

cartoon of the month RE: NEW YORKER



This cartoon will hopefully resonate in the hearts and minds of all those cartoonists who have knocked their head against the wall at 4 Times Square to to avail . . . I have a feeling the second guru got the short end of the stick, the shaft, the treatment, capish ?